Inclusion, Sustainability & Transparency in the Beauty Industry with Sepia Skincare Founders

Speaker 1: 0:06

Hi Megan, hey Sarah, how are you? I'm doing great. I have a huge life update. Like it's massive let's do it.

Speaker 1: 0:29

I went from one row to two rows. You did Okay. So I had my hair, my hair appointment yesterday and I had gone a little bit longer in between appointments this last time and I was just feeling like blah about my hair and I was like what can we do Like besides, just like touching up the color, like what would you recommend? And she was like let's put a mini row in. So I have one full row and then I have a mini row which is just like half the quantity above and it's so pretty, I love it, it's so much hair.

Speaker 1: 1:11

So the idea is that I will kind of like see how I like the feel of this, because it definitely feels very different, and then the next appointment, if it felt like too much, we can take that mini one out and go back to one row. But it's kind of fun. You know, I see all like I follow all the hair extension brands on Instagram and the models that they're posting have so much hair in. But it's so beautiful and you kind of think like, oh, how can I take a little bit of that for everyday life? So I feel like I have a little bit of it now and it feels extra glamorous, yay.

Speaker 2: 1:49

I want to see it in person and I want to see how thick it feels. That's exciting yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:54

So I went to an orange theory class and I just brought my regular rubber band that I always use and I usually put my hair in a ponytail after I go into the class because I want my ponytail to be in my hair for the least amount of time possible to not have breakage. So I'll hop on the treadmill and I'll just like quickly get my stuff in order and throw my ponytail in, and the rubber band broke. I was like, oh no, I'm busting out of my rubber band.

Speaker 2: 2:30

That's evidence that a change has been made. A change has been made, I know.

Speaker 1: 2:33

so I kind of like hop out and get a new rubber band, but I think I'm going to need, like the bigger, stretchier ones. But yeah, it's cute. You'll have to let me know what you think.

Speaker 2: 2:44

Actually, you just said something that's a good reminder to me. So you tried not to keep a rubber band in your hair because of breakage. Yes, okay, yeah, I threw my hair in a ponytail often, but I probably shouldn't be doing that as often. I should be leaving it just down.

Speaker 1: 3:01

Well, I think scrunchies or something that's like a soft, loose pony is fine. I notice on myself probably because I am so blonde and my hair goes through a lot that I do a really tight ponytail for working out just to have it out of my face completely, and I'll notice some stress on my hair or some breakage if I'm doing that too frequently. So yeah, it's just like a personal. My hair is probably not as strong as it should be.

Speaker 2: 3:33

Oh interesting. Well, mine isn't either, because it's also blonde.

Speaker 1: 3:35

So yeah, okay interesting, we do all of the things, that's right, that's a good tip yeah thank you for being that up. How are you? What's going on with you?

Speaker 2: 3:47

Oh, I am good. I'm sort of like in the post-vacation blues cycle of life. You know how that is, when you go for a vacation and then you come home and you're like, well, when's the next vacation?

Speaker 1: 4:02

I'm going to be.

Speaker 2: 4:03

So the past couple of weeks, I guess, I've been sort of in like vacation planning mode, just thinking of where I want to go, where should we plan to take the kids and when do we have time off, so yeah, so I've been sort of planning some trips and the things we have planned so far are a trip to Hawaii in the fall, which you may join for I'm hoping with Fingers crossed, that would be amazing.

Speaker 2: 4:36

And we are going to go to Disneyland over the Christmas season, which I yeah it might be crazy, this might be a crazy decision on our part, but I just thought it sounded like a lot of fun to go see all the decorations and all the things that they have up and the cool parades they have. So we're going to give that a shot, like really over Christmas season.

Speaker 1: 5:03

Wow, okay. That'll be interesting to hear about.

Speaker 2: 5:06

Yeah, it will be fun, and we are. I'm already looking at next year and looking at where are we going to go. So I have planned us out three more trips next year and I'm trying to squeeze in a fourth.

Speaker 1: 5:22

Okay, are any of them? New Zealand? Because you want to go to New Zealand. And so we. I know that's a big planning trip.

Speaker 2: 5:29

That's a big one. Whenever you want to go, you let me know and I'll cancel one of these other ones and we'll do that instead. I would love to do New Zealand. That would be amazing.

Speaker 1: 5:37

Well, and if we're going to be in New Zealand, we'll have to hop over to Australia, because it's right there and one of our guests today is currently living in Australia, so we will have to take a visit with him. No, I?

Speaker 2: 5:51

went through. We went through a major Australia obsession over the pandemic due to the TV. We started watching Australian TV. What, yeah, this is a total aside. We got very interested in Survivor Australia and we also got all the commercials from Australia when we were watching the show. So we got obsessed with one of the commercials about Mount Franklin, which is like they're sparkling water, and my husband went online, he found it and he found somebody who would ship it to our house and then it arrived and I was so surprised to see this Mount Franklin sparkling water from Australia.

Speaker 2: 6:33

It's a random thing, but we have a total obsession with Australia at our house, so we would love to stop by.

Speaker 1: 6:39

Okay, take a look. Well, maybe that's our next to do in our planning.

Speaker 4: 6:43

Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1: 6:46

So fun Well with that. Welcome everyone to Platinum Perspective, the podcast about beauty, travel, luxury and more. I'm your cohost, sarah.

Speaker 2: 6:55

And I'm Megan. Sarah and I are best friends who put the work in to get the most out of life. So you don't have to.

Speaker 1: 7:02

Today we are talking about inclusion, sustainability and transparency in the beauty industry. We are so excited to have the founders of the brand new skincare brand CPA here with us today. Founded by a beauty industry expert and a clinical researcher, cpa was created through the lens of community care, not just self care. A brand rooted in inclusion, sustainability and transparency. Cpa offers a simplified routine of effective, evidence based formulas that have been clinically proven to support all skin tones. Cpa is creating space for nuance and representation within the skin care industry, one where education is at the forefront and everyone is welcome and all complexions are celebrated. Welcome today to Mike and Anna.

Speaker 4: 7:58

Hi. Thank you Hi.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Thank you so much for being here and congratulations on your brand new baby.

Speaker 4: 8:07

Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Before we jump into this amazing brand. I just wanted to share that Mike and I have known each other. I was doing the math and I don't want to age us, but we have known each other For about 11, 12 years. We both started working at bare minerals and I worked there first, but I remember the day that Mike started and he was so friendly and so positive. I was in my 20s and I was like, yes, I'm going to be friends with him. I really like him. He is just fun and kind and really, really, really smart.

Speaker 1: 8:49

Mike and I used to have these big meetings with lots of people and this is when I was really new in the industry and I was just trying to learn as much as I could. After the meeting, mike and I would stay in the room or we would go to a different room to do all of the work. I would have a list on my computer that were questions to ask Mike, all the things that were confusing or I didn't fully understand in the meeting. He was just my catch-all. For that I would just go through and he you never made me feel bad. You always were just like okay, this is what this means. This is what this means. This is what this means. I owe part of my success in the industry to you, because you just gave me this education where I was like, okay, I can do this. I've got this figured out. I've got this person on my side who's helping me in these crazy huge meetings with sea levels and 30 people, and they'd get really heated.

Speaker 4: 9:44

You were always amazing I think I speak for both of us that our time at Bear Minerals was so magical. There were so many wonderful friendships that I think we both walked away from.

Speaker 1: 9:53

It was amazing. Aside from our love for the beauty industry, mike and I also share a love of dressing up for any occasion, and our greatest shared love is, of course, britney Spears.

Speaker 4: 10:09

We love Brit, brit. I even walked down the aisle at my wedding to an acapella Britney Spears song.

Speaker 3: 10:14

It was amazing. We all love Britney.

Speaker 1: 10:19

It was amazing. Your wedding was amazing, although I was eight and a half months pregnant at your wedding and the guests were to wear all white.

Speaker 4: 10:29

And you look stunning.

Speaker 3: 10:31

Okay. So, sarah, I was also pregnant at his wedding. You were Also wearing all white, yes, and you also look stunning. We love Mike. That's how much people love.

Speaker 1: 10:41

Mike. I know Mike is the kind of person that has so many really close friends. Okay, well, enough about our friendship, let's get in to the brand. Megan, do you want to start with a rapid fire?

Speaker 2: 10:57

Yes, so this segment is all about questions that we have made for you that you must answer in one to five ish words, but we promise you can come back and clarify a little later. Okay, are you ready?

Speaker 4: 11:11

Yes, let's do it.

Speaker 2: 11:11

Okay, so what is the number one thing to look for when you are wanting to buy a truly sustainable brand Brands transparent about their sustainability challenges. Good one, anna. Do you have anything to add?

Speaker 3: 11:27

Yeah, Similar brands that measure and report their sustainability efforts. Oh okay.

Speaker 2: 11:35

Nice. I've spoken like a researcher. I like it On a scale of one to 10, how transparent do you think the overall beauty industry really is?

Speaker 4: 11:48

I'm going to be a little controversial and say five.

Speaker 1: 11:51

Oh, that's disappointing.

Speaker 2: 11:53

I know, Anna. What do you think?

Speaker 3: 11:56

I think seven. I'm going to give it a seven.

Speaker 2: 11:58

Okay, I want to hear more about this. We'll come back. What does inclusion in the beauty industry mean to you?

Speaker 4: 12:07

A sense of belonging.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Anna, what do you think? Feeling seen Nice, yeah, okay, last one what is the one non-CPS skincare product you can't live without?

Speaker 4: 12:24

It's sunscreen and for me specifically, supercoop unseen sunscreen. Oh, I love that. That's a good one.

Speaker 2: 12:32

Anna, what do you think?

Speaker 3: 12:34

I'm sunscreen all the way, specifically my physical mineral sunscreen. I heard your podcast. I am all the way physical mineral.

Speaker 1: 12:44

Oh, you are oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:46

Can I ask a follow-up? What's your favorite?

Speaker 3: 12:49

I kind of toggle between, but I really love the La Roche-Posay oh yes, yes, they do, I have a mineral. They do Okay, and it's really great. It's just this liquid, fluid sunscreen that just melts into your skin. It doesn't make you feel overly dewy. I really like that.

Speaker 2: 13:11

I'm writing this down.

Speaker 1: 13:12

I know I always see that brand at my dermatologist. Maybe I'll try that. Okay, that was a great rapid fire. Now how about can we get you guys to tell us a little bit about yourselves? Mike, do you want to start? Sure, of course.

Speaker 4: 13:29

So I've worked in the beauty industry for almost two decades now.

Speaker 4: 13:32

I've worked both on the brand side for bare minerals and buxom, as Sarah had mentioned, in the US, and then I've also worked as a buyer for Sephora, both in the US and also Australia and New Zealand, which is where I live now, and the whole time that I've been working in the beauty industry I've worked with hundreds of brands and I've always felt like there's been, it's been, disappointing how the beauty industry has addressed diversity and inclusion.

Speaker 4: 13:56

It is often performative, it's sometimes tokenistic, and I just feel like we can do better. And so I wanted to explore what would it look like if we started to build a brand where inclusivity was a foundational building block? And so Anne and I have always bonded over a mutual love of skincare and I thought let me take this concept to counter approach to her, because she's, you know, has a lived experience as a woman of color and she also has this amazing professional background that I thought would blend really well with my beauty experience. So brought it to her. It really resonated, and I'll turn it over to Anna to talk a little bit more about her background.

Speaker 3: 14:32

Sure. So I have a background in research. I come with 15 years of experience in clinical trials. I currently oversee clinical research operations at a leading non-profit healthcare system in Southern California and I have a really great team. They basically are running clinical trials looking at alternative therapies for our patients. So that's my background. I also have a long time love for the beauty industry and skincare. I mean, I've been obsessed since my tweens. I'm probably aging myself, but I used to love, you know, cosmogirl 17. I would read these magazines back to back. So, as Mike mentioned, we've bonded over that, over, you know, the years of knowing each other. And through the years I've often seen a lack of diversity in skincare branding, I think, both branding and clinical studies. So when Mike came up to me, I just thought this is such a great opportunity, I can't pass this up. Let's bridge some gaps. And I feel it's such a privilege to just blend my passion for research and for skincare. I love that.

Speaker 1: 15:48

Megan's smiling so big you can't. Her passion is also clinical research.

Speaker 3: 15:54

Oh my gosh, I did not know that. Yes, I love research.

Speaker 2: 15:58

Oh, that's so cool. Yes, sarah has said that you and Mike are sort of the equivalent of me and Sarah her coming from the beauty and me coming from the science. So we're enjoying this a lot. It's a lot. Of this is great.

Speaker 3: 16:11

That's awesome. It's a great pair.

Speaker 2: 16:13

Yeah, how great. So the two of you have come together to create Sepia skincare. Can you tell us a little bit about the brand?

Speaker 3: 16:24

So when we began Sepia, we were very much driven by an inclusivity mission, which we see as a form of community care. But community care for us extends beyond people. It also includes our planet, and that's also why we've adopted a planet first pledge, and that's our approach to sustainability. And in the end, people are really coming to us for a product that gives them results. So we follow a mindful formulation philosophy which speaks to developing effective products that lean into transparency, and these are three values that have really guided us in creating efficacious formulas that are inclusively tested, sustainably packaged and deliver measurable results for all skin tones.

Speaker 1: 17:04

Oh, I love that. I feel like this speaks to my beauty heart so much because, working in the beauty industry for so long, you see so much of the same stuff within marketing, within packaging, within just a lot of it's functioning within the same narrow box and it's so great to see something coming outside of that box to fill a need. So you know. Going back to inclusion, so DEI efforts diversity, equity and inclusion have been this really hot topic for a bit now, really across all industries. I'm interested in what your perspective is on how this has materialized within the beauty industry.

Speaker 4: 17:55

Yeah, definitely, it's definitely a hot topic. You know, we entered this journey with this philosophy that diversity is a fact, it exists, it's not an opinion. There is a diverse lived experience out there. For many people, inclusion is a choice. Companies can decide whether or not to lean into that and you can lean in that in different ways and the outcome of inclusion is the sense of belonging, and so that was really the driving force with us is how do we help people feel like they belong in beauty, and so, for us, it was about leaning into inclusivity.

Speaker 4: 18:30

So we're using inclusivity as this lens through which we're making all the major decisions as we build this brand. So you know how we formulate products, how we're testing the products in our clinical studies, how we educate, how we market the products, and even which suppliers and contractors we work with.

Speaker 3: 18:48

I think really what's so important to us is that we wanted a truly concept to counter approach to inclusion. As people of color, both Mike and I, we haven't always felt like we belong in the beauty industry and so it's so important to us that our consumers feel seen and represented. So, again, really starting with inclusion and just having that drive our significant decisions because, you know, we want to say skincare for everyone, we want to mean that how does that actually materialize?

Speaker 2: 19:16

Like does it come down to the testing? Does it come down to the products used? How do you make it more inclusive? Yeah, I think a lot of brands.

Speaker 4: 19:26

They'll often add a brown or black face to an image for marketing. Right, that's kind of where it starts. It's the very basic. Then you can start to look at people who bring it into an education standpoint. So how may a beauty product work better for somebody with maybe a more coiled hair or a darker skin tone when you're doing foundation matching? Then there's the people that take it a step further and they say let's look at the actual ingredients of these products and how they interact with different skin tones.

Speaker 4: 19:55

So you want to avoid in skincare certain products that might unintentionally impact the melanin in darker skin tones. So you don't want to unintentionally bleach skin. So staying away from ingredients like hydroquinone and you know we're doing that for our products. But then, on top of that, we want to see how do these products work on different skin tones, because different skin conditions show up in different ways for different skin tones. So a great example, I think, is irritation. So when you're asked a question about irritation, it's often did this product make you red? Somebody with a darker skin tone may not turn red when they're irritated. I don't turn red when I'm irritated. So we're not even asking the right questions in some of these clinical studies. So it's really just starting to peel back. You know where is the bias in the formulation in the study, going so far beyond the marketing element to really go back to the very beginning of where the products start from. Anna has a really, I think, good story from when she was younger and magazines and that idea.

Speaker 3: 20:55

I again like obsessed as a tween and I would save all my allowance for these magazine subscriptions and I, just, I loved it. I would read cover to cover. I would read, you know, the index of, you know who's being seen wear, and also like what everyone's wearing like makeup and clothing. I just, I loved magazine, I loved print and I remember reading this article and it was the perfect nude lip for everyone and they raved about this nude lip that just looked great on everyone. So I, you know, saved up my allowance, went to the drugstore, bought it, was so excited, went home, put it on and I was so shocked it was like this frosty white lipstick on my lips, like it looked awful. I was like this is not nude, this must be wrong. Like I honestly actually looked to make sure I bought the right shade and it was just, you know, just eye-opening.

Speaker 3: 21:59

That I wasn't necessarily part of the readers audience. You know, probably unintended, but when you're reading the best, the best nude lip for everyone and then it really it doesn't turn out for you. I think that's just like an example of how sometimes you don't feel like you're completely seen in the beauty industry and I mean there's like strides more efforts in the beauty industry now. I love seeing all the different swatches of foundation and just that variation, but I just think you know there's still a long way to go and there's a lot of space to make more awareness for inclusion.

Speaker 4: 22:45

And that's why you know we're so focused on belonging. We don't want anyone to ever feel like we're not. You know, speaking to them, that they can't see themselves in our brand, and so you know that. Example of you know the best nude lip. It could have been the best nude lip by skin tone and then everyone would have something that could work for them, but that's not the way that that experience played out. We don't want to repeat. You know mistakes that have been made in the past.

Speaker 1: 23:09

Right, and to have that experience at such a vulnerable age, that's just yeah, that's so unfortunate. I mean, we agree it is great how, how much has been done, but we acknowledge there is a long way to go. How could, how could someone like Megan and I best support this?

Speaker 4: 23:29

I mean I think what you're doing right now, with this platform you know this podcast you're providing exposure to a brand like us who wants to really talk about what does it mean for us to embrace inclusivity and beauty and to have a dialogue and to be asking the question you just asked? Like all of that is a really powerful way to support this work.

Speaker 1: 23:48

Okay, good to know. So with that, let me ask more questions. So you spoke a little bit about, and you have online the skin-inclusive approach. Can you explain a little bit about what that is?

Speaker 3: 24:05

Sure. So again, we really want our consumers to feel seen and represented. So it was obviously very important to me that when we formulated a product that we would have a clinical study and test how you know people reacted to it, what they thought we really wanted claims based off of people's experiences. So I went out to third-party companies to run a clinical study and our absolute must-have is that you have to have every skin type on the Fitzpatrick scale. So just a little background of the Fitzpatrick scale. It's a classified scale of skin types. They're looking at skin color as well as the skin's response to UV light, and it's classified by six types.

Speaker 3: 24:52

So it ended up being one of our biggest challenges. I had no idea that it would be difficult. A lot of companies said we can't guarantee that. We've never been asked that before. Some companies said it would be more to recruit for a diverse panel, that they could do it but there would be an upcharge. So I was really shocked. But we couldn't say we were inclusive without having a study that truly had everyone. So we pushed through. We found a company that we were able to work with and we're so proud to say that we had 43 participants in a 12-week study, and every skin type, one through six, was represented in the study.

Speaker 1: 25:36

Oh, yay, that's wonderful. Congratulations, that's so amazing. Thank you we were really excited.

Speaker 3: 25:42

I think it's a great first step and we have this information on the product page because, again, we want our consumers to feel seen. So when we say we tested this on 43 participants and 95% said that their skin felt softer after use, that in that percentage there are people who look like them. So, in addition to breaking down by skin type, we also broke down by ethnicity and gender. Again, we say everyone, we really want to mean that.

Speaker 4: 26:17

So when we talk about skin inclusive, we did a lot of research into really the history of bias within caring for skin and we were learning about how this lack of inclusion extends into dermatology and that actually translates into misdiagnosis or underdiagnosis of skin conditions in people of color. And there was a study that we were reading about by an assistant professor of dermatology at the University of Pennsylvania where they were reviewing dermatology textbooks and saw that only 4 to 18% of images depicted darker skin tones.

Speaker 3: 26:49

So what was happening is?

Speaker 4: 26:51

people were learning how to become dermatologists, but they were learning how to identify skin conditions on a certain type of skin, so lighter skin tones. So then if a skin condition shows up in a different way on a darker skin tone, they were misdiagnosing or they were underdiagnosing, which is awful. And then even more disturbing was a lot of these textbooks would have zero images of darker skin tones, with acne, psoriasis, dermatitis, like these major conditions that a dermatologist should be able to identify across any skin tone. But then when it came to sexually transmitted diseases in these books, that's where you started to see darker skin tones show up in the imagery. So there's just a long history of bias when it comes to caring for skin and there's a lot of work to do, you know, in dermatology and beauty, kind of across the board. But it was something that was. It was interesting but also very horrifying to hear that that exists still.

Speaker 2: 27:50

That's crazy.

Speaker 1: 27:51

Yeah, that's. That's so sad, it's so disturbing. I think it's great to get that out out there, because that type of information should be known, and then that's also its own episode.

Speaker 3: 28:06

Seriously.

Speaker 1: 28:08

But that I know that's so sad and so disturbing, but how wonderful that you both and CPR are taking the steps to begin this true inclusivity approach.

Speaker 2: 28:22

Wow, yeah, as a follow up question, I think how do you, how do you branch out to men? Because I know men need to be using this just as much as women, but don't always invest in this sort of product for themselves. Like, is that part of the diversity inclusion aspect for you guys as well?

Speaker 4: 28:42

100% as a man myself. It was important that men were included in the clinical studies. So I think we had 28% of our panelists were men. We even specified we wanted to have men with facial hair because for before and afters. I mean have you ever seen? Well, rarely do you see a man in before and after, but then do you ever see a man with facial hair.

Speaker 1: 29:05

And as somebody with facial hair, I feel like I would just like to see myself once before and after. Mike would always joke. So when we worked for bare minerals, they used me and a lot of the marketing and on a lot of the products and Mike would every single time email or text as soon as I came out. I can't believe I wasn't chosen for the dark shade or the tan shade. I can't believe I wasn't chosen for this.

Speaker 4: 29:33

I had to create my own brand to get my face out there. But no, we really wanted to make sure that men and really all genders, because there are more than two are feel like they belong and that they're included in this.

Speaker 3: 29:48

So we made sure that in the marketing.

Speaker 4: 29:51

There's multiple genders in our clinical studies and you know, for me personally, I feel like men's skincare versus women's skincare. It's just marketing spin. It's like a pink razor versus a blue razor. It really they both cut hair. So you're washing your face, you're moisturizing your face. It's skincare doesn't need to be gendered. There are concerns, maybe you have oily skin or you have dry skin, but that cuts across gender, and so for us, there's a non gendered approach to our skincare.

Speaker 2: 30:22

I love that Perfect. I love that. Coming from outside the beauty industry but deeply interested in it, I am wondering what exactly does sustainability mean within beauty?

Speaker 4: 30:34

So we have a lot to say on this. There's there's a lot of greenwashing in the beauty industry, and this has created this maze of confusing and conflicting information that consumers then have to navigate on their journey to try to do it for the planet, and so what we wanted to do was really bring more clarity to the topic of sustainability, so things like recycling. So you'll often buy a bottle of you know moisturizer or serum or something and there's just a recycling label on there, but, in more instances than not, not every element of that packaging is actually recyclable. So we wanted to break that down at a, like an element level. So our box, our glass bottle and our plastic pump only the box and the bottle are recyclable, and so we note that, with specific icons for each element.

Speaker 4: 31:25

The plastic pump is not, and we're very transparent about what that is. So there's a, I think, a level of transparency that we'd like to try to see more brands adopt. We really try to minimize the use of plastic because we're in a global plastic crisis. The World Wildlife Fund believes that there's gonna be more plastic in our oceans than fish by the year 2050, which is terrifying. So we're minimizing our plastic by reducing things like caps and clips that are just more aesthetic and we really prioritize the use of glass and aluminum, which is infinitely recyclable.

Speaker 4: 31:59

And then for the plastic that we are using. We want to offset our plastic footprint, so we partner with an organization called Waste Revolution to offset our plastic footprint, so all of our products are actually certified plastic neutral. And we partner with another organization called Bluebird Climate. They help us to assess and measure and report on our climate impact, our waste impact, and all of this is available publicly on our website, on our product page, so you can look at each individual SKU level, what the impact of your purchase is making on the environment.

Speaker 4: 32:28

We also feel like you know, we're taking resources from the earth and so it's our obligation to give back, and that's why we give to 1% for the planet to help fund environmental causes, and you know, all these things are wonderful. There's no silver bullet when it comes to sustainability, but it's really just about committing to measuring, reporting and actively trying to minimize your impact on the planet.

Speaker 1: 32:52

I love that so much. Mike, I at the beginning you mentioned greenwashing and my understanding of that is is it just brands that are marketing and speaking towards being sustainable or able to be recycled, but in actuality, the products are not made that way? Is that correct? Is there more to that?

Speaker 4: 33:15

If you are creating products you by default are not sustainable.

Speaker 4: 33:21

You're producing something right, so you're already not sustainable. I think brands can be on a sustainability journey, which is what we say we're on, and there's different levels of commitment to those sustainability practices. And some brands start from the beginning with sustainability as a core part of who they are. Other brands it's something that comes later. For us, it was important that we start from the very beginning and make these decisions early on so that we are able to say that all of these decisions that we make around our products were through this lens of what is the impact on the planet.

Speaker 1: 33:55

I love that. That's so important and the additional effort and cost associated with all of that I'm sure is just massive. But I just want to applaud you on taking that step because it's so refreshing to hear and we hope that this will be the future right For lots of brands and I'm sure you'll be able to see them that you're taking a lead in this.

Speaker 3: 34:18

Thank you. I mean, it really is a journey. I think from the very beginning, mike and I our core values, was really easy to us to determine what was important, but then, when we sought out to achieve that, it was a lot harder than we realized, just because of the lack of information. We had to also educate ourselves on just what our options are and what the impacts are as well. I mean, I had to call my friend in waste management to confirm is this truly recyclable? If you do this, is this also recyclable, or is this the landfill?

Speaker 3: 35:00

We had to do a lot of researching and education to ourselves as well, so that we can be transparent about our efforts and where we're at, but also what we'd like to do down the line as we get further into our journey. I mean, other things we'd like to explore is a deeper dive into the sustainability of our supply chain and manufacturing partners or our ingredients sourcing. We've already started to explore this with our ingredients, just to make sure we're looking at what's been sustainably sourced. But there's just so much, I think, information that isn't always available in what decisions are being made or not made. So it's a journey for us and I think also a journey for consumers really to think about each impact.

Speaker 1: 35:52

Yes, so I think that often we're hearing sustainable and clean partnered together. They're hot words right now and beauty they're, I guess, across all industries. What is the difference between those two and what does it mean for you?

Speaker 4: 36:11

Great question. Clean typically focuses on formulations, so it's when a brand is talking about which ingredients they formulate without because of potential problematic or concerning elements that that ingredient could present. So, for example, hormone disruptors, which I know you guys have talked about a bit. Sustainability for us, this is really about protecting the planet and, by extension, communities, because when the planet suffers, people suffer. I mean, we're looking at the summer with wildfires raging, the highest temperature ever recorded of July. It's just crazy what's happening right now. It's scary, and so if you don't take care of the planet, we're going to just continue to see more of that. We're also firm believers in the triple bottom line, and it's this concept of profit, people and planet, and that's why we have these key values of inclusion as a choice.

Speaker 4: 37:05

The people piece and planet first pledge the planet piece because we believe that the idea of doing well and doing good are not mutually exclusive.

Speaker 2: 37:13

The company you brought up that helps you monitor? That sounds super interesting. Do they help you calculate things like your footprint and then you get credit? How does that work, yeah?

Speaker 4: 37:23

so Bluebird Climate. They help you calculate your waste impact and also your climate impact based on where you're sourcing all of your different components. So you actually have to provide them where the bottles come from the boxes. It's measuring how far it's traveling Is it traveling by sea or by air? What is it made of? Is there recycled content? There's a ton of information that they do to audit you and then they benchmark you against the industry standard based on all the other information they have from suppliers and brands, and so you can kind of see where you stack up and then where there's opportunity for you to improve. So maybe it's sourcing a bottle domestically instead of from abroad, and that could then help reduce your emissions impact. So it's really great to kind of keep you honest on where you are and where there's opportunity for you to improve.

Speaker 2: 38:07

That's super cool that you would just opt in to the monitoring, like that. I think a lot of times we hear audit and we're like, oh, but yeah, that's great that you guys are leaning in there.

Speaker 1: 38:19

That's so great. So then, also within sustainability and clean, you have the term mindfully formulated. How does that fit in?

Speaker 3: 38:31

Yeah, so with mindfully formulated again just around transparency, we really want our consumers to know what they're using. So what ingredients are we using in our formula? But also, if we just give you a list of ingredients, it's not necessarily digestible, especially without context.

Speaker 1: 38:51

Oh, you're speaking our language, Anna.

Speaker 3: 38:54

Here's a list of ingredients and I mean it's like great, like what do I do with this? What does this?

Speaker 1: 38:59

mean they're nonsensical words half the time.

Speaker 3: 39:03

Exactly so we partnered with a third party company, clear for Me, and they actually it's great. There's this interactive ingredient list that's available on our product page. So when you go onto our website and you take a look at the product page, you can see the full list of ingredients. But actually click on the ingredient and then there's a standardized, very digestible definition of what the ingredient is as well as the benefit. So, again, being transparent about our ingredients. But I just don't want to leave you hanging right, like where's the context in this? We're really excited that you can kind of play around and just get a better general understanding of what we've used and also why, like what is the ingredient contributing to the formula? So there's that piece. But also we really want to be very transparent about our active ingredients and the percentage level that we're using. I would say not a lot of skincare brands are transparent about the percentage and in part, I think there is a misconception that more is more. But it's really important that you're formulating at the percentage that's been clinically studied, right. So you want to make sure that you're using the right dosage specific to your delivery system. Those are the things that I think brands may not be transparent about, but that's really important to us, because you want to know what you're using and what you're getting.

Speaker 3: 40:37

Also, mindfully formulated, we have a skin and melism philosophy. Again, I think less is more. We want to give you less products, but really efficacious products that are going to work for you. So just something that's a more sustainable, more streamlined skincare routine with less products, but something that's going to be really effective and working for you. As for clean, we do meet many clean guidelines, such as Sephora and Ulta, but we choose not to say we're clean. I think that there can be a nuance lost when you're using a term that can be unregulated. It can mean different things to different people. So we really want to focus on just being mindfully formulated, what we're using, and being transparent about that for our consumers, and we're also vegan and cruelty free.

Speaker 1: 41:33

I love that transparency.

Speaker 1: 41:36

We mentioned that in the rapid fire as well, and just being in the industry for so long, you see so much of the lack of transparency.

Speaker 1: 41:48

There was even this big brand a couple years ago that got in trouble because they had an ingredient in their number one skew, their number one product that became banned by the FDA and, rather than immediately pulling it and reformulating it, they brought on a massive legal team and were working through all of the loopholes to keep the product on the shelf. And that product stayed on the shelf for a very long time after it was deemed unfit to be used by the FDA. And that was pretty eye-opening to me working in the industry, just like wow. It is up to us, the consumer, to check everything that we're buying, but also to put our dollars into brands that are transparent. So I know we're going to get to your line later, but I hope there's going to be a lot of products in this line that we can. Just because I feel great in your transparency, I'd like to just buy CPA products and know that I'm good. But, mike, I'd love to know your thoughts, working in the beauty industry with me for so long, on transparency.

Speaker 4: 43:12

Yeah, I mean, I rated it a five in the rapid fire. I think, unfortunately, when it comes to transparency, so much of what brands do is dictated by the financial value it serves.

Speaker 4: 43:24

So the big question is will it drive sales? And I think, with transparency, it just has to go beyond that. When you look at transparency, it's also not just about sharing information. It's about making sure that information is accessible, it's digestible. A data dump of information will just overwhelm people. So you really have to curate that and give it in a format and a language that will resonate. So what Anna was talking about earlier, with the ingredients and having kind of in layman's terms, what does this ingredient, what is it and what does it do in this formula, I think is a great example of where brands can kind of lean into transparency in a way that will really resonate with consumers.

Speaker 2: 44:06

Whenever we have brand founders on, I love to ask them about starting their business. What challenges did you face in creating this brand and do you have any advice for listeners wanting to start their own business?

Speaker 3: 44:18

Sure, I can start. I talked about it a little bit before but, honestly, one of the biggest challenges was finding a company who would run a clinical study for us that could guarantee a diverse panel. And, coming from research, I was really shocked. I thought, oh, I've got this, mike, let me take care of the clinical study, don't worry about it. And it was such a challenge to find a company who could work with us. But inclusion is our core mission and I couldn't give a study that wasn't diverse. It was not an option. So don't give up on your core values. I would say remember who you are from the start and always let those drive your decisions, because you're going to be so much happier with the end result, knowing that you stuck to what's really important. We want our community to feel seen and I'm really proud that we can say we had this tested. We have you represented, whoever you are. So I guess, really sticking with what your core values are, no matter the challenges, keep pushing for what you stand for.

Speaker 4: 45:36

Yeah, I think for me the challenge I really found was around just balancing work, family and a new business. It's a lot. I mean, I don't even have kids and it has two small children. I have a husband and three houseplants and it was a lot for me.

Speaker 3: 45:52

But you know I'm dead, so there you go.

Speaker 1: 45:58

We're dying Same Same.

Speaker 4: 46:02

But it's just, it's a struggle and you know I I'm someone who has perfectionist tendencies. I'm a Virgo like Beyonce. So for me it was, it was really about like living the idea that perfect is the enemy of good. So being okay that not everything is going to be perfect as we roll out this brand. But you know, we kind of know that. So the little tweak on the website that we didn't get to make no one else is going to care.

Speaker 4: 46:30

That's really us. So, just keeping in mind that perfect is the enemy of good and, I think, also just to ask for help and just knowing that people want to see you succeed and so ask for help and people are going to show up for you.

Speaker 1: 46:44

I love that, mike. By the way, megan tells me that that's full tear right. She tells me that quote like every day, yeah you're speaking our language.

Speaker 2: 46:53

It's a good one.

Speaker 1: 46:56

I love that. So with all of that, we have tried your first product. We thank you for sending it to us, Of course we both loved it. Will you tell us a little bit about the product?

Speaker 4: 47:11

Yeah, definitely. So our first product is even tied retinol renewing serum and we knew that we wanted to start with a retinol serum because there is I mean, it's really just a gold standard ingredient in skincare. There's so much clinical research that supports the benefits of retinol, so the cellular turnover, the collagen production, evening skin tone and texture, even unclogging pores and helping with acne. But it's also a challenging ingredient because it's not the most stable molecule so it can be hard to formulate with and it can also cause irritation if it's not dosed and delivered appropriately.

Speaker 4: 47:44

So you're actually seeing a lot of brands shy away from retinol. They're going after retinol alternatives, but the research around those alternatives it just pales in comparison to what's out there for retinol. So our approach was let's focus on the delivery system. Let's make sure we really nail that, because then we can harness the benefits of retinol and mitigate all of those concerns around irritation and stability.

Speaker 4: 48:06

So our retinol molecule actually sits in a solid lipid core that's within a leak proof multi layer capsule and that prevents oxidation, so that you maintain bioavailability. You maximize stability.

Speaker 4: 48:19

it's a gradual time release so you don't have a retinol overload on the skin that causes irritation and it helps with the penetration and efficacy, and we also are very transparent, as Anna mentioned before, about the percent of the active in our ingredients. So we use 0.3% retinol, so it's gentle but effective. You don't want a damage your skin barrier by using really high active percents, and retinol burn is not something we wish on anyone, so really it's slow and steady wins the race when it comes to your skin. In addition to that, we have a host of other supportive ingredients. We added copper and amino acids to increase skin firmness and density by stimulating collagen and elastin production. We've also added nourishing ingredients like lipids, ceramides and hyaluronic acid to support the barrier and further minimize irritation and redness. So all of this contributes to a really moisturizing, lightweight texture.

Speaker 2: 49:09

That's great. I have to say, this is the first time I've ever received a product in the mail to try.

Speaker 2: 49:17

So, it was such a treat to get your package and I have a hard history with retinol products. I don't always respond well, including skin pseudocals. I love that brand, I have their retinol and I just can't use it. So I did tiptoe around your product for a couple of days and then I told Sarah, I'm just going to do it. And I did use it and I had no reaction at all. And this is the first time I've ever used a retinol product and not had scaly skin afterwards with redness and everything. So I was blown away. True story Hands down. I'm very excited about this product, especially now that I've always wanted to use a retinol, but it's been very hard to find one I can use. So, yeah, thank you for creating such a wonderful product.

Speaker 4: 50:07

We're glad you enjoy it.

Speaker 3: 50:08

Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that. We did a 12 week study with 43 panelists and actually we were so happy to hear that out of the 43 panelists, there were no adverse reactions to the retinol, which included first time retinol users, and we even had them use the retinol product around the eye area and 81% said that they didn't experience any irritation around the eye. So so happy that you really liked it and that you didn't have any reactions. We do have, you know, instructions on the bottle and the box just to, if you're first time user or if you have sensitive skin, to ease into it. So two to three times a week and then kind of work your way to every night. But I'm so glad you had that response or lack of irritation. 95% of our panelists said that their skin felt smoother and soft after use. 88% said visible signs of texture have improved and 84% said their skin tone looked more even. We have some before and after pictures on our product page too, and they look so good. We are so happy with the results.

Speaker 1: 51:17

Yeah, I tried it as well, and same as Megan no redness, and I have had that retinol burn that you mentioned before. So have I, so have I. And it's such a nightmare because I feel like you're so hard on yourself. You're like I did this to myself, like I used to do much.

Speaker 3: 51:36

I know you go real dark real fast when your face is like just red and dry and burning.

Speaker 1: 51:43

Yes, yeah, but your product was amazing. I loved it as well, and so my interest is piqued. What other products do you have in the works?

Speaker 3: 51:54

Yeah, we have a robust pipeline of products in the work. We're really excited to just show you more. Everything's going to be again along the lines of a continued focus for inclusivity, sustainability and transparency. We're going to slowly roll things out, but we're excited about our next launch in the first half of 2024, which will be our take on an efficacious daytime treatment serum. So be excited for that. We really like it as well. I think it'll be a great user experience.

Speaker 1: 52:25

I'm so excited. That sounds interesting. Okay, so where can people find the Eventide retinol renewing serum and learn more about your brand, cpia?

Speaker 4: 52:38

You can purchase our Eventide retinol renewing serum on our website at wwwCPA-SkinCarecom, and we'd love to offer an exclusive 20% discount to Platinum Perspective podcast listeners through the end of August, so you can use discount code Platinum20.

Speaker 1: 52:55

Oh, thank you. We love that. So we will link everything on our Instagram for our listeners so you can follow the brand and you can purchase your product using that discount code Awesome, amazing.

Speaker 2: 53:12

Well, thank you both so much for coming on and sharing your Platinum Perspective on Inclusion, sustainability and Transparency in the beauty industry. Where can everybody follow your brand?

Speaker 3: 53:24

You can follow us at www. Cpa-skincare on both Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 1: 53:31

Okay, nice, perfect. Thank you, this was so much fun. I'm so excited for you both. I'm excited for what's more to come on the brand and congratulations.

Speaker 4: 53:43

Thanks so much. Thanks for having us Thank you.

Speaker 2: 53:45

Thank you for coming and please rate, like and subscribe and catch us on Instagram and Facebook at Platinum Perspective podcast. Thank you everyone, bye.